While I was on Facebook I forwarded a post with a quote supposedly by Pope Francis I that read:
"It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money — for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history do not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name."
A friend objected to the quote and said that she didn't agree with what was written for several reasons. So this is what I wrote back to my friend:
I am sad that you don't understand the perspective that the Pope has -- I think the quote has been taken out of context. The Pope was not talking about salvation. He was talking about how the institutional church can be used and has been used by people who want to do evil. I believe completely that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is Lord of All and everything that has been created was created by, in and through Him. Maybe there is something about the context of the quote that leads you to believe Pope Francis is talking about a "social Gospel," but each person is able to have a personal relationship with God in Jesus Christ -- and anyone who loves knows God, for God is love, as John wrote in one of his epistles [[1 John 4:13-16 (ESV)].
Jesus said, to be his witnesses in action -- not to preach. Being a witness means loving action, not judgment and condemnation. The true sign of God's presence are definitely the signs of liberation from oppression, deliverance from illness, that the hungry are fed and that the naked are closed. The true presence of God's Reign on earth does not come from professions of faith, but from faith in action. Jesus came to open up a closed system with a lot of hoops to jump through that was basically only available in a works' righteousness way depending on being born into a family. The Lord lived, taught, suffered, died and was resurrected for all of creation and for everyone. Whose who became His disciples were told to love one another as he had loved them. The witness of how they loved one another and how they loved others in action made the Gospel evident.
God is always on the side of the poor and oppressed. Those who are witnesses to the fullness of Jesus' incarnation, life, death and resurrection announce and live out the Gospel. If they teach that anyone is condemned and cannot have access to God's mercy, grace, peace and love, they are not telling the truth. Each person has to come to have a relationship in Spirit with God who is Spirit.
You went off on a tangent that doesn't have anything to do with the quote. God's love, grace and mercy is for all. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal Jesus Christ to people. And salvation is available to everyone on earth. The promise of love and grace will always trump threats of going to hell. The Cross is part of the activity of the life and mission of Jesus. But the Cross is still just a symbol and the worship of it is idolatry. Jesus said, "This is eternal life -- to know God and to know the One He sent." [John 17:3 (NIV)] Getting to know God is only possible when we open our hearts to the Holy Spirit. And we can never know what is between God's heart and the heart of each person.
In the Acts passage (above -- Acts 10:34-43), Peter has had a revelation from the Lord. And no one knew Jesus better than Peter. Over and over people have tried to take over and say that human beings have to be in control of access to God. When speaking to the woman of Sychar at the well, she was asking about just such a thing -- why some people said that God should only be worshiped on one mountain and others said only on a different mountain. In reply, "Jesus said to her, 'Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24 (RSV)
The Gospel is not meant to be restrictive. When a person loves and acts out in love,mercy and righteousness, that person knows God and is acting as God hopes that all human beings would act. Certainly it is important for people to know God loves them and to know who Jesus is, but each person knows God out of the context of his or her culture. We cannot bring Jesus to anyone and we should never try to force Jesus on anyone. The Holy Spirit has come before us and prepares the way.
This is what Peter learned through a revelation that is recounted in Acts 10:
"And Peter opened his mouth and said: 'Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. You know the word which he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace by Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), the word which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. And we are witnesses to all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; but God raised him on the third day and made him manifest; not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that he is the one ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Peter's Revelation)
We are to proclaim the Gospel by the way we love and take care of people. The earliest followers of God in Jesus Christ did not try to change their society. They just began to live another way. People were drawn to them because love in action defined them. May that ever be true of anyone who claims to be a follower of Y'eshua . . Jesus . . . Иисус . . . Jesús . . .Ciise . . . and any other way the Name above all names is written or spoken.
* * * *
After I went on an on like that, I decided to look the quote up on Snopes.com and see it the quote was really from Pope Francis I. This is what it said --
Origins: On or around 6 December 2014, the above-displayed image of Pope Francis and accompanying quote began to circulate on Facebook. The image is one often used in tandem with circulated quotes (legitimate or spurious) attributed to Pope Francis, but the quote appended to it this time was a new one:
It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money — for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history do not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name.
The quote was deemed plausible by many Facebook users (who subsequently shared it) due in part because Pope Francis has been both inclusive and non-judgmental in his commentary thus far regarding faith, morality, and good deeds. The heavily-circulated quote also read to many as a natural extension of what was widely viewed as partial acceptance of atheism by Pope Francis during a May 2013 homily: back then, Pope Francis' words were interpreted by some to mean atheists could achieve redemption through good deeds without belief in God, while others inferred the comments merely referenced corporeal time on Earth and cooperation towards peace:
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."
Following Pope Francis' homily, Fr. Thomas Rosica (a Vatican spokesperson who specializes in translating the Pope's remarks for English-speaking Catholics and the media) issued a clarification stating the homily's content was not intended to suggest belief in God was immaterial to salvation:
This means that all salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body. Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her. At the same time, thanks to Christ and to his Church, those who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ and his Church but sincerely seek God and, moved by grace, try to do his will as it is known through the dictates of conscience can attain eternal salvation.
Earlier comments notwithstanding, the quote appended to the image that circulated in December 2014 does not match any verifiable comments made by Pope Francis. Although Pope Francis did make statements in 2013 that were widely received as atypically inclusive of nonbelievers, they did not resemble the "not necessary to believe in God to be a good person" quote. It's not clear where the quote originated, but there is no proof (nor is there precedent) for the claim Pope Francis voiced it.
Read more at Snopes.com Answer
* * * *
And I also looked the quote up on A Roman Catholic website called Crux.com
I found these comments there:
I have never seen the quote that your Facebook friend attributes to Pope Francis and I cannot believe, in particular, he would say that “the traditional notion of God is outdated” or that “it is not necessary to go to church.”
I imagine this Facebook quote is a “gloss,” a fanciful expansion of two things that Pope Francis actually did say. In a homily in May 2013, Pope Francis told morning worshippers at the Vatican that “the Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone.” To which he added: “Even the atheists.” That strikes me as a strange quote to be coming from the pope. Can you confirm for me whether he actually said it? (Philadelphia) ANSWER I have never seen the quote that your Facebook friend attributes to Pope Francis and I cannot believe, in particular, he would say that “the traditional notion of God is outdated” or that “it is not necessary to go to church.”
I imagine this Facebook quote is a “gloss,” a fanciful expansion of two things that Pope Francis actually did say. In a homily in May 2013, Pope Francis told morning worshippers at the Vatican that “the Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone.” To which he added: “Even the atheists.”
"It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money — for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history do not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name."
A friend objected to the quote and said that she didn't agree with what was written for several reasons. So this is what I wrote back to my friend:
I am sad that you don't understand the perspective that the Pope has -- I think the quote has been taken out of context. The Pope was not talking about salvation. He was talking about how the institutional church can be used and has been used by people who want to do evil. I believe completely that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. He is Lord of All and everything that has been created was created by, in and through Him. Maybe there is something about the context of the quote that leads you to believe Pope Francis is talking about a "social Gospel," but each person is able to have a personal relationship with God in Jesus Christ -- and anyone who loves knows God, for God is love, as John wrote in one of his epistles [[1 John 4:13-16 (ESV)].
Jesus said, to be his witnesses in action -- not to preach. Being a witness means loving action, not judgment and condemnation. The true sign of God's presence are definitely the signs of liberation from oppression, deliverance from illness, that the hungry are fed and that the naked are closed. The true presence of God's Reign on earth does not come from professions of faith, but from faith in action. Jesus came to open up a closed system with a lot of hoops to jump through that was basically only available in a works' righteousness way depending on being born into a family. The Lord lived, taught, suffered, died and was resurrected for all of creation and for everyone. Whose who became His disciples were told to love one another as he had loved them. The witness of how they loved one another and how they loved others in action made the Gospel evident.
God is always on the side of the poor and oppressed. Those who are witnesses to the fullness of Jesus' incarnation, life, death and resurrection announce and live out the Gospel. If they teach that anyone is condemned and cannot have access to God's mercy, grace, peace and love, they are not telling the truth. Each person has to come to have a relationship in Spirit with God who is Spirit.
You went off on a tangent that doesn't have anything to do with the quote. God's love, grace and mercy is for all. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal Jesus Christ to people. And salvation is available to everyone on earth. The promise of love and grace will always trump threats of going to hell. The Cross is part of the activity of the life and mission of Jesus. But the Cross is still just a symbol and the worship of it is idolatry. Jesus said, "This is eternal life -- to know God and to know the One He sent." [John 17:3 (NIV)] Getting to know God is only possible when we open our hearts to the Holy Spirit. And we can never know what is between God's heart and the heart of each person.
In the Acts passage (above -- Acts 10:34-43), Peter has had a revelation from the Lord. And no one knew Jesus better than Peter. Over and over people have tried to take over and say that human beings have to be in control of access to God. When speaking to the woman of Sychar at the well, she was asking about just such a thing -- why some people said that God should only be worshiped on one mountain and others said only on a different mountain. In reply, "Jesus said to her, 'Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24 (RSV)
The Gospel is not meant to be restrictive. When a person loves and acts out in love,mercy and righteousness, that person knows God and is acting as God hopes that all human beings would act. Certainly it is important for people to know God loves them and to know who Jesus is, but each person knows God out of the context of his or her culture. We cannot bring Jesus to anyone and we should never try to force Jesus on anyone. The Holy Spirit has come before us and prepares the way.
This is what Peter learned through a revelation that is recounted in Acts 10:
"And Peter opened his mouth and said: 'Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. You know the word which he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace by Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), the word which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism which John preached: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; how he went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. And we are witnesses to all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; but God raised him on the third day and made him manifest; not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that he is the one ordained by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that every one who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” (Peter's Revelation)
We are to proclaim the Gospel by the way we love and take care of people. The earliest followers of God in Jesus Christ did not try to change their society. They just began to live another way. People were drawn to them because love in action defined them. May that ever be true of anyone who claims to be a follower of Y'eshua . . Jesus . . . Иисус . . . Jesús . . .Ciise . . . and any other way the Name above all names is written or spoken.
* * * *
After I went on an on like that, I decided to look the quote up on Snopes.com and see it the quote was really from Pope Francis I. This is what it said --
Origins: On or around 6 December 2014, the above-displayed image of Pope Francis and accompanying quote began to circulate on Facebook. The image is one often used in tandem with circulated quotes (legitimate or spurious) attributed to Pope Francis, but the quote appended to it this time was a new one:
It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money — for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history do not believe in God, while some of the worst deeds were done in His name.
The quote was deemed plausible by many Facebook users (who subsequently shared it) due in part because Pope Francis has been both inclusive and non-judgmental in his commentary thus far regarding faith, morality, and good deeds. The heavily-circulated quote also read to many as a natural extension of what was widely viewed as partial acceptance of atheism by Pope Francis during a May 2013 homily: back then, Pope Francis' words were interpreted by some to mean atheists could achieve redemption through good deeds without belief in God, while others inferred the comments merely referenced corporeal time on Earth and cooperation towards peace:
"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class. We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all. And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: We need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: We will meet one another there."
Following Pope Francis' homily, Fr. Thomas Rosica (a Vatican spokesperson who specializes in translating the Pope's remarks for English-speaking Catholics and the media) issued a clarification stating the homily's content was not intended to suggest belief in God was immaterial to salvation:
This means that all salvation comes from Christ, the Head, through the Church which is his body. Hence they cannot be saved who, knowing the Church as founded by Christ and necessary for salvation, would refuse to enter her or remain in her. At the same time, thanks to Christ and to his Church, those who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ and his Church but sincerely seek God and, moved by grace, try to do his will as it is known through the dictates of conscience can attain eternal salvation.
Earlier comments notwithstanding, the quote appended to the image that circulated in December 2014 does not match any verifiable comments made by Pope Francis. Although Pope Francis did make statements in 2013 that were widely received as atypically inclusive of nonbelievers, they did not resemble the "not necessary to believe in God to be a good person" quote. It's not clear where the quote originated, but there is no proof (nor is there precedent) for the claim Pope Francis voiced it.
Read more at Snopes.com Answer
* * * *
And I also looked the quote up on A Roman Catholic website called Crux.com
I found these comments there:
I have never seen the quote that your Facebook friend attributes to Pope Francis and I cannot believe, in particular, he would say that “the traditional notion of God is outdated” or that “it is not necessary to go to church.”
I imagine this Facebook quote is a “gloss,” a fanciful expansion of two things that Pope Francis actually did say. In a homily in May 2013, Pope Francis told morning worshippers at the Vatican that “the Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone.” To which he added: “Even the atheists.” That strikes me as a strange quote to be coming from the pope. Can you confirm for me whether he actually said it? (Philadelphia) ANSWER I have never seen the quote that your Facebook friend attributes to Pope Francis and I cannot believe, in particular, he would say that “the traditional notion of God is outdated” or that “it is not necessary to go to church.”
I imagine this Facebook quote is a “gloss,” a fanciful expansion of two things that Pope Francis actually did say. In a homily in May 2013, Pope Francis told morning worshippers at the Vatican that “the Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone.” To which he added: “Even the atheists.”
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